Home at last, but I'm so behind on everything! Quick - is there still that election thingummy on? Who's winning the cross country water polo? Are all the members of B*witched still alive? IS BENEDICT CUMBERBATCH STILL TRENDING ON TWITTER!?!?
Right. Yes. *adjusts Media fedora just-so*
I'm well behind on all the Youth Olympics goings-on and for the moment am stuck with a slow PC that doesn't open too many links or show video. All I can tell you thus far is that...
- Brody-Jai Hennessy has qualified through to the men's high bar final
- Gymnastics Australia has links to articles and live streaming of the Games although...
- If you have Foxtel Digital like me, you can check our their dedicated YOG channel (517) that I discovered this morning!
Cracking stuff. Best wishes to the rest of our competitors this week. I hope to give you more comprehensive coverage (and even watch some of that live stream) when my laptop coughs and splutters back to life.
Now, who out there wants a stodgy Langkawi keyring...?
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ETA: Got the stream working in time to see Angela TOTALLY NAIL BEAM! Stuck double twist dismount. The commentators and crowd just loved it. GO ANGELA! Scored a 14.400.
Moments later: These guys are rubbish and obviously totally new to watching gymnastics - I've taken my headphones out until Angela starts on floor.
Floor- had a big jump back on the opening double pike and closing double tuck but a great effort. Looks like the latter MIGHT have gone out of bounds. On the replay... ooh, it was very close! Scored 13.100, still sitting in second place AA before 3 rotations are completed.
Hm... they started showing Angela's vault and then cut to floor. Oh dear! It appears we have missed out. At the end of this second subdivision she has finished in 4th place! Congratulations Angela!
Some videos are going up at this YouTube channel.
A summary (written before all subdivisions were completed) is here. Apparently Angela finished equal 6th? She's through to the all-around final, the bars final and the beam final, wooohooo!
104 comments:
Welcome back, Mez!
The live feed from singaopre is good in that it doesn't cut out but the commentators are horrendous - they know nothing about the sport and refer to "twirls" and "leaps with a kickout" and one of them has this terrible habit of counting the number of flips as if the more flips the more impressive. unfortunately i will be on the long train trip home during Angela's rotation
Don't know if anyone noticed but they just showed Angela's mum in the crowd...can't wait to see her compete!
The live feed is amazing! I missed Angela on bars by about 5 minutes. The comentators are awful though. I just watched bulimar from Romania on vault which had pretty bad execution, badly bent arms and they LOVED it.
I hear you Anonymous - 3:17. The commentators have NO idea!!! They even said if the gymnasts fall gracefully then the judges will be more lenient on them. Is that really the best they could do?
Lol. Next vault " nicely done except the fall to the bottom will be a deduction." these guys are very funny. And I don't think they are trying to be.
They just replayed Angela, 13.25
I hear you, they said it was good to be small for Bars...isn't that usually the event where the slightly taller girls do better!?
Nice beam routine Angela!!!
Was going to mute the commentary...glad I didn't they said such lovely things about Angela at the end!!!
Good job. Omg verticallity? Is that even a word?
Lovely beam from Angela
Thank goodness I got the stream working. Caught Angela's beam and it was GORGEOUS! Stuck dismount and all for 14.400
Yes, the commentators are total chuckleheads!
I'm going to stop now but seriously "universality and olimpicality" he's killing me
Just got home and so excited to hear about Angela's beam! Woot!
ANGELA WAS AMAZING!!! her beam routine was, as the commentators said 'virtually flawless'!
I think the commentators just said her beam boosted her to second AA!
GO ANGELA!
(According to these guys watching bars, a pirouette is a 'grip shift', a handstand is 'verticality' and a stalder is a 'flair'!?)
haha at the Commentators,they are doing a stellar job!! says with tongue in cheek
Oh commentary is to die for... Angela flip flip, flip with rotation to sit on beam (or something like that for a full twisting korbut). And the originality and difficulty of a toe front tuck off bars, say compared to say a full in double back? Also she's having a little pause on bars (read fall) no problems with that!
And the start it drove me insane but now its just plain amusing!
It's kind of like going to work in a job you have no idea how to do...think I might go do brain surgery tommorrow, I'll fake my way through it, ha ha! So glad to have the live feed though...so exciting!
ACK! I've had to take my headphones out 'til Angela does floor.
The commentary reminds me of Roy & HG's commentary from Sydney. When in doubt of the skill name just make it up.
They think they're making the situation better by STILL TALKING.
Guys, pauses can be good things!
Anon 4:59
Yes, being taller does not seem to be a disadvantage on bars.
Svetlana Khorkina was 5'5 and look at her record on bars.
Even Nastia Liukin at 5'3 was taller than most and bars in one of her best apparatus'
The poor commentators, at least there are trying I guess.
crazy date, crazy date with twinkle and sparkle....oh and a flat back!!! Loved Roy and HG's commentary!
I'll take Dutch Window and Hello Boys over these guys any day!
Too bad her vault is so weak or she could give it a real go.
What did she get on floor?
13.1
Ange scored 13.100 on floor (I think the difficulty score was 5.0?)
Now that these guys have learned the word 'Yurchenko' they love to bandy it about!
A recent GA release said:
After the Youth Olympic Games she will be preparing for the National Club Championships and working on a second release on Bars, as well as her Yurchenko full to be competition ready.
So at least it looks like she'll be making some headway in terms od D score for next year.
has she competed on vault already or is that still to come?
Does Angela not have a yurchenko full yet? Someone said that she had.
What did she score on bars?
I assume she will be making AA and beam final but is she a chance of any others?
She is on Vault this rotation but they have not shown it yet. She is 2nd last on vault.
From what I've read she has a FTY but she won't be competing it at Youth Olympics.
This is from her coach "We have taken off some degree of difficulty so she can show her level and make clean and consistent routines.”
She should have some upgrades by National Clubs later in the year.
I never understand that philosophy - those 6 tenths could make a huge difference here. Just a shame. I wish the Aussie team had more of a risk taking philosophy sometimes.
The commentator just said the replay was for the judges!! that's rubbish isn't it? Surely judges don't watch replays.
Is Angela weaker on vault than other then the other three apparatuses that she has lower difficulty on it?
Angela seems really promising and I was wondering why a yurchenko full is not competition ready?
The Australian girls seem to get to senior with weak vaults and they can seem to upgrade later but I was wondering why they weren't encouraged to have harder vaults when they are juniors. Most juniors at nationals only had a layour yurchenko.
UB 13.25 5th
BB 14.4 2nd
FX 13.1 Tie 5th
So a chance for 3 finals plus AA final. Pretty good effort.
Angela in 5th place on bars, 2nd on beam, 6th on floor after 2 sub-divisions. 4th AA.
In terms of replay, if its set up properly, the Difficulty panel on an apparatus can watch a replay to assist in determining whether the technical requirements of a skill have been met only to determine the start value (or D score), but cannot be used to determine the execution score (E score). For instance, to check, whether a twist got round which i think was their reference on vault to see whether they gave a yurchenko full or only paid the half.
Amazing score for the Chinese girl - like 58. something. Wow.
There is a huge vault problem in the Australian team. It was embarrassing at PacRim to see layout yurchenko after layout yurchenko, from girls who are senior next year or already senior. Why was this not thought about earlier?
It presents a dilemma becasue if we want to have beautiful gymnasts like Angela, Amelia and Georgia Rose at worlds next year, then we are going to be crazy weak on vault. At USA nationals this week 3 juniors did amanars for gods sake!
Australian gymnasts are not paced very well in my opinion - it takes them 1-2 years to get competitive routines once they become seniors, then as soon as things are looking up they burn out/retire.
I really hope in future they will put more emphasis on learning skills at a younger age because it is clearly affecting their prospects internationally.
oh god the commentators are killing me! its so frustrating they called the beam the bar and a pirouette is a grip shift and one of them was even counting the number of flips roundoffs and saults in a tumble line to make it seem more impressive. they also said that if they fall gracefully the judges were more lenient to them umm excuse me but how on earth were you hired i want to hit something!
Does anyone know what Angela scored on vault, and where she ended up in the AA standings after the first two sub-divisions?
4th aa 2nd beam 5th bars 5th(tie) floor. I don't remember vault but not top 8 and her aa score was 54. Something as were the 2 competitors in 2nd and 3rd.
Anon 6:46
You are right. The way things are going the girls will only have an FTY next year and you can't have three gymnasts on worlds team who are only doing FTYs because two will have to compete vault.
I think the girls should at least have a y1.5 the year they turn senior and possibly a DTY if they are good vaulters.
40.75 was her total for the other 3 apparatus so the lowest vault score she could have got is 13.25 and that is if she got 54.0 aa. Hope my math is right and that it helps.
Even the stuff they prob have researched is wrong! Like the fact in the olympics they count 10 elements but at this comp only count 8 even though senior comps also only count 8 skills. Grrr. Its really frustrating!!
Omg the Russian Komova's bars is incredible! It was just stunning. Great handstands, plenty of difficulty. Wow.
Don't forget Angela was injured for some time with a hamstring injury.This would have put her behind in vault especially because of the running etc.
I was thinking the hamstring problem could have impeded Angela on vault but I do think there is a problem with vault in Australia I sure the girls are capable of doing harder vaults they just don't seemed to be encouraged to do so.
Komova socred 15.7 on her Anamar they just called it a Yurchenko, she took a fairly large step. She then did a DTY and because it was stuck one of the commentators through she would score higher than 15.7 and were surprised when she only scored 15.1. Lol
The juniors must be able do two different vaults of the same family.
Angela has qualified =6th for the AA. 8th Bars, 4th Beam
Well done Angela!!! Such a fantastic up and coming talent :)
Angela qualified for AA final in 7th spot, she actually had the same score as 6th but they had her as seventh.
She also qualified 4th for Bean and 8th for bars.
Komova scored 61 in qualification, almost three point ahead of her nearest rival. The third qualifier scored in the 55s.
Angela qualified AA =6th, UB 8th Place, BB 4th Place
Missed out of FX 10th
FANTASTIC EFFORT!!
Saw the amanar - pretty incredible. Made the DTY look practically easy for the second vault (which of course it isn't).
Plus Komova's AA score of 61.0 - what are seniors getting at the moment. Seems so much higher than anything here in Aus.
Obviously tie breaker rules put Angela into 7th - can't remember what they are though. I was going to say it just changes her group but given they have 18 in AA not sure how the groups will be done anyway.
Anon 10:05
To put Komova's score in perspective Bridget Sloan one last years worlds all around with a 57.825. She isn't even senior yet.
In saying that, I think scores a worlds will be higher this year. I think Bross will be capable of getting close to 60.
Anon 10:05
To put Komova's score in perspective Bridget Sloan one last years worlds all around with a 57.825. She isn't even senior yet.
In saying that, I think scores a worlds will be higher this year. I think Bross will be capable of getting close to 60.
Just found some information on the Russian girl Komova if your interested , Viktoria Komova shes 15 and her mother was the 1986 Goodwill games champion Vera Kolesnikova.
http://www.viktoriakomova.com
Good luck to Ange for the next days of competition and also to Brody
The amanar wasoverscored which is annoying as Komova is clearly the best in the field, if not the world at the moment. I've never understood overscoring someone who clearly does not need any help dominating the field. If Angela can connect her aerial to her BHS LOSO she could contend for a BB medal.
Hopefully she gets a D dismount soon. Not fulfilling the EGRs is such a D score killer that can be easilt rectified.
Yes Komova did probably deserved more of a deduction for her Anamar, there was a large step and she still got an execution of 9.2 and she got an execution score of 9.3 on her DTY which was just about perfect and like it was mentioned she didn't really need the overscoring.
Angela was fourth qualfier for BB so hopefully she will content for a medal. She will have to rely on a mistake from Tan or Komova to get ahead of them since they scored over 15. Anyway it was a great effort for her to qualify for two apparatus finals and wasn't that far off making the floor final either.
In an article it says.....
"In the finals Donald would look to add a double pike to her beam dismount and perhaps there is improvement on her floor routine."
That might just give her the extra tenths she needs.
I think I read somewhere Angela will up grade her beam dismount for finals, so she could possibly medal on beam. Just found the schedule for the AA, first 9 start on Vault and second 9 start on Bars, she will be up last on vault
If Angela gets everything credited, her d-score should be around 6.2. I think she will have to improve the switch ring for it to get credit but it sure is a good starting point for the future.
switch leap C
rulfova D
front aerial D+bhs+loso (0.1CV)
aerial cartwheel D
side somi D
switch ring E
sheep D + back tuck (0.1CV)
bhs+bhs+double pike E (0.2CV)
0.4CV + 1C 5D 2E + 2.5 = 6.2
I've got Angela's UB and BB on my channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/mistysakura
Some of the comments here on Australia's vaulting situation in general and Angela Donald's lack of a difficult vault in particular are just killing me. Clearly none of you have ever competed at a high level or done any coaching. Please allow me to clear a few things up.
Yes, it's a fact that Australia's juniors are lagging behind in terms of high-difficulty vaults. However, the reason why they are being paced slowly is to make sure they have good technique, which will enable them to make relatively fast progress later on. Too many coaches are rushing their gymnasts, letting them compete skills they probably shouldn't be doing yet. On vault, this results in all sorts of technical faults - bent arms, wrong impact angle, early twisting, that sort of thing. By letting the girls work on more basic vaults for a relatively long time, the coaches are ensuring that they have good technique, which will stand them in good stead later when they wish to upgrade. It is much easier to learn a double-twisting Yurchenko if you have perfect technique. If you've got into the habit of coming on too high and starting twisting too early, which is exactly what happens when girls start twisting before they have the basic technique down pat, you will find it very hard to upgrade. If, on the other hand, you've been given time to hone your technique, you'll probably go from a layout Yurchenko to a double-twisting Yurchenko much more quickly (which is exactly what Georgia Wheeler is supposed to be doing this year). In other words: a slow start here may well lead to rapid progress later.
As for the person(s) who wondered why Angela isn't doing a Yurchenko-full when it is known she has been working on one... Good grief, you do realise there's a difference between working on a skill and having it competition-ready, don't you? For all I know, Angela might have a great Yurchenko-full into the pit or onto a mat in the pit. That does not mean she's ready to show the skill in competition. In fact, it's probably a good thing that she isn't showing it yet, what with deductions being what they are these days. A .6 increase in difficulty is useless when you lose a full mark for a fall. Execution scores matter more than difficulty scores. Kudos to Angela Donald's coaches for realising this.
Thank you 11.22 - finally the voice of someone who understands the training at this level - no matter there will still be plenty of people who don't understand international level training that will poo poo your comments
Poo poo? Lol. Seriously though, thanks for clearing that up. How is it that people continously second guess the program these girls have? The coaches know what they are doing ok!
well slow pacing may be the case but we went to Beijing 08 with a grand total of 1 double twisting yurchenko. Didn't exactly pay off, did it?
No, slow pacing doesn't always pay off, but that is not always due to said pacing. Some girls are natural vaulters. Others have more affinity with other events. Some girls are more injury-prone than others. All these things affect how well a gymnast is going to develop, and at what rate. You can't blame coaches for taking things slowly with gymnasts who either have no special talent for vaulting or are often injured (or both). In fact, they are to be applauded for taking things slowly with such gymnasts. Australia can't afford to lose gymnasts through rushed pacing.
For what it's worth, full-twisting Yurchenkos by gymnasts who haven't quite mastered the technique yet are pretty ugly. Some gymnasts actually look lost in the air for a while, as it takes them a while to figure out their whereabouts in the air, when to start twisting, etc. It's better if they don't compete the technique until they have thoroughly familiarised themselves with it.
The US gymnasts don't pace the learning of their vaulting skills and are quite capabale of doing high level vaults. It works very well for them!!!
You can't compare Australian gymnasts with American gymnasts. For one thing, America has many more competitive gymnasts than Australia. Naturally there will be some spectacular vaulters among them. For another thing, American gyms tend to be much better equipped than Australian gyms, which helps. And last but not least, let's wait and see what those amazing American juniors (and Viktoria Komova for that matter) do in a few years. It wouldn't be the first time an amazing Russian or American junior burned out before she made it to the senior stage...
I really hope Viktoria Komova and the good US juniors don't burn out. Komova is senior next year and the olympics are two years away so major they are just trying to ensure that she is as ready as possible. I am sure there are good gymnasts from all countries how don't really do as much as they promised, not just Russia and the US.
I really hope you guys are right about the vault situation that quick upgrades are possible. Considering next year Australia needs to try and finish top 8 at worlds or undergo another qualification in early 2010 it would be good to have a few DTYS.
The US have so many girls training that they can afford to ( and do) lose plenty along the way.
Thank you, Anon@ 11.22. Finally someone who not only knows what they are talking about, but actually seems to have the health and welfare of our girls in mind.
I completely agree with everything you are saying.
May I say that I am absolutely sick of these exact same ignorant complaints about vaulting difficulty appearing EVERY. SINGLE. TIME we have a competition? I mean, is it just one person who simply refuses to understand, or do people genuinely believe that chucking skills leads to world medals (instead of spinal rehab beds)?
And if I can address the whole USA argument -- first, there is a greater athlete population. Second, many of the juniors with double twisting yurchenkos are in fact still unusable on any other apparatus -- they are naturally talented at vault but are unlikely to ever make a US gymnastics team. Third, there have been US gymnasts in the past with high level vaults as juniors, who are completely broken down by the time they are seniors and end up never making senior teams, despite enormous talent. Just off the top of my head: Kristal Uzelac (competing a Cheng).
USA are actually in a little bit of a pickle at the moment. They have Alicia, Aly Raisman, Zamarippa all with fabulous vaults, and at least two of them could potentially win gold in the Worlds EF. But what does that do to their bars potential?
If anything, YOG shows that Australia is pacing our girls just right -- AA scores were very comparable over places 3-10, and presumably these nations are sending examples of their best juniors.
And given OUR current injury woes -- I would like to know how anyone thinks our girls COULD in fact be made to do harder skills?
Thank you, that is all.
Well Lauren and Emily already have DTY don't they? Are there any others for next year?
Actually, I find I DO have one more thing to say: for an example of successful vault pacing, look at the Romanians. Their juniors are almost always competing easier vaults, but always end up showing high level vaults by the end of the quad.
And I truly do think Australia will be fine on vault.
AND given how long it took for us to have ANY gymnast with a DTY, the coaches obviously ARE progressing us well given the number of gymnasts who have them now or in the past, are training them or aiming for them.
how are the juniors at camp looking on vault? is anyone training a dty for next year?
Did anyone see Bulimar's vaults from YOG - shocking form - that's what comes from executing a skill without perfecting the basics
I saw them. I'm no judge but they were some of the most bent arms I have ever seen. Whatever th max is for bent arms she should have got it. No wonder the rest of the vault was less than perfect. Didn't she still get 8 point something in e score? I don't get it!
As far as any other Seniors or Juniors getting a DTY goes, I think only Sophie Budack and Georgia Wheeler are possibilities in that area. Does anyone know how either of those girls are going as far as their progress for vault is concerned?
I would say there would be more than that - I think Britt and Zoe for VHPC were working towards DTY's from what i can remember
Lovely to see Angela doing so well
I note that in the case of a Double Twisting Yurchenko, it seems that many gymnasts will attain (and sometimes compete) the skill at about the 14-16 year old mark but less so later. This seems to be when they are experienced enough to tackle the difficulty but not yet suffering some restricting injury.
I was chatting to a senior gymnast about why we see seniors competing lesser vaults than previously shown. She said that it was all about the feet. Landing big vaults can be like jumping onto concrete bare-footed, it hurts. Only a few practice vaults can usually be tolerated onto the competition mat. The vault run-up mat is usually too hard too. This can lead to shin splints or serious repetition injuries to the feet. All of that is compounded by the fact that the girls have increased loading on their feet from increased weight associated with puberty and muscle build up from higher training loads.
She felt that you needed great equipment, be injury free and have a coach who was super careful. To compete a DTY, you really need to be at the top of your game and in great shape. Unless you're confident of nailing a DTY then you are much better under the code to compete a Yurchenko full and not risk the heavy penalty for anythink less than perfect execution.
Discuss...
Politics aside - the facts are Australia is weaker on vault and for some reason always has been. We've had a few good 'one offs' eg. Trudy, but as a team we're weaker on vault. I remember when Peggy came in the late 90s she commented that Oz was weaker on vault and she didn't want to have that 'hole' in the Oz team again. I really don't think we've made that much progress in that area. I really don't know why. Ultimately, as good a job as the coaches are doing I think it does come down to them. Maybe Peggy could try to introduce some kind of 'reward' system, where gymnasts who come to Nationals with more difficult vaults get extra value - a bit like Peggy did in the late 90s to reward gymnasts who had some extra things or stuck landings something like that. having said that I definitely agree that it should all be done safely. Most definitely.
For some gymnasts it also depends on how they pull out of a twist - some will find it easier to pull out on a full twist and so they will do FTY and DTY and some will find it easier to pull out at the half so they will do a 1 1/2 or an Amanar. Any place that wants to train elite should have the best equipment - i think that should be a requirement for training girls at elite level
Re Equipment..
Having "great" equipment is not that easy. I recall that just before the pre-Olympic camp at the AIS, Mark Calton and the Waverley coach spent time to build a wooden base floor for the vault run-up. That was purely to provide a more cushioned feel as thay only had the 50mm regulation mat sitting on the hard floor.
We saw that at Vics too where the 50mm matting was on the concrete. It is just not enough by itself and can force gymnasts to do less.
I think the down grading of a Y1.5 to a 5.3 disadvantages Australia. At the last olympics Lauren, Geogia and Shona all competed solid Y1.5 in the team final and Australia finished a credible sixth of that apparatus, second best behind their fourth on beam. Now that a Y1.5 is only worth 5.3 DTYs probably become more appealing to many countries.
I don't think anyone is trying to be critical of the girls but Australia has some beautiful up and coming gymnasts and it just seems as though their vault may hold them back and may hold Australia back a little.
You know what? Australia is weaker on EVERY apparatus when you compare us to top gymnastics nations like USA, China and Russia. Not just vault. The difference is there are more avenues to achieve a higher difficulty score on the other three apparatus.
Australia in the past has been somewhat clever in finding combinations that give us the maximum potential score. We've seen lots of jump combos, acro-dance combos, pirouette combos...but fewer high-valued individual skills such as standing arabians or standing back full twist on beam; Ray or Church type releases on bars; double layouts on floor.
I think it's just that vault has set tariffs...less place to hide or be creative.
Australia does an amazing job being as successful as we are (given our depth), when you think about it.
Let's face it -- we love our Aussie gymnasts but we aren't the best team in the world. Personally I think that makes it even more special when we have a genuine contender, like a Trudy, Lisa, Allana, Monette, Hollie, Dasha, or Lauren.
*plaintively* has anyone seen video for Angela's floor exercise yet?
Brodie on P-bars -- great stick on the dismount!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ebErKYgKHc
And Brody on High Bar:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COKJg9AkXKA&feature=channel
And FX:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vB-nzsB6X1k&feature=channel
Here is Angela's floor http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5ACbDZCdj0
Where did Brody finish in the AA.
27th in preliminaries so not in aa final. 1.2 below the lowest qualifier so not too far off.
Anon @ 8.58, thank you SOOOOOO much!
GYMNASTICS VICTORIA PLEASE DO NOT POST POLITICAL CRAP ON YOUR WEBSITE
They probably have a media service which picks up anything with a reference to gymnastics. There is one line about an upgrade to one of the clubs. I agree though, it has no place being on their website.
For anyone interestedthe AA final is on atm.
http://www.youtholympicgames.org/index.aspx
Channel 2 at Bushan Sports Hall.
Angela vaulted a Layout Yurchenko and scored a 13.2 D4.4 E8.8
Anon @ 8.30pm, would you mind keeping us updated? The live video feed is almost unwatchable on my computer, and I'd love to know how Angela does.
Yeah I should be able to.
Angela is in 10th after the first rotation. Komova leads with a 15.65she did her amanar. Tan in second.
Angela's vault was one of the cleaner ones but considereing it was 0.6 less difficult than most of the other girls she was always going to struggle to get a good score.
10th isn't too bad, considering vault is her weakest apparatus she should only improve from here, hopefully.
The commentators are idiots, one said that Komova's bars score of 15.450 was the highest of any in the finals so far. She scored higher on vault.
Hey guys, I was tardy to the party but have started an entry for the AA.
Jump on!
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