Friday, July 13, 2012

Happy Birthday To...

TWO lovely gymnasts currently in Olympic camp right now, Olivia Vivian and Larrissa Miller!


Both are wonderful ambassadors for gymnastics in this country and will continue to do us proud in the years to come. Have a great day, girls!

68 comments:

Anonymous said...

Hippo birdy 2 ewes!!!

Anonymous said...

Anyone know if Olivia is planning on retiring after her olympic duties as non traveling reserve finish? Would be pretty cool if she choose to stay and try for worlds?

Anonymous said...

I read somewhere she wanted to perform in Cirque du Soleil or similar. She would be great in a performance role, she has such an effervecent personality!!

Anonymous said...

Anyone seen the new British Gymnastics web site? Major overhaul.

Anonymous said...

Lais Souza is out for Brazil. I think we would have beaten them anyway, but this makes it even more likely, sadly for her.

I think we are ahead of France as well.

So we have to beat two more teams to make it to team finals. I think Canada and Germany are the most possible.

nade00 said...

Germans will be tough - vault lineup of 6.3, 6.3, 5.8, plus 2 d-scores of 6.0+ on bars (Seitz and Bui).

Anonymous said...

I keep thinking about Australia's vaulting. It is a weak point for Australia. Why does there seem to be no focus on teaching vaulting skills earlier to build the girls up to doing Amanars and difficult vaults like that for when they get to junior and senior international level? A dedicated vaulting coach sounds like it is really needed.

I am NOT proposing that the girls that are currently competing need to suddenly pop out Amanars. Without the right build up, that's just downright dangerous. I AM suggesting that more focus needs to be put on building up to those skills from earlier on.

If juniors in other countries are working on Amanars and other difficult vaults, why are Australians not?

Ok, now you can rip me to shreds. :-) (Nicely, please.)

Anonymous said...

I agree.

Anonymous said...

July 15, 2012 4:39 PM

How do you know that our Juniors and IDP 10's are not training Amanars in their own gyms? Never forget consistency is vital, that O.1-O.8 in landing deduction steps etc in addition to body shape deductions, legs bent/apart/crossed in the 3 phases could all be less with a vault of lower difficulty, therefore increasing the team score.

Anonymous said...

After seeing many terrible yurchenko layouts and pikes one after the other at junior and IDP levels at nationals, I very much doubt that there are girls training amanars in their own gyms. There seems to be an absence of good technique on the block phase. Most of the vaults consisted of the hands making contact with the table and then at the same height (table height) the body was whipped around laboriously. Not especially inspiring.

Even if you look at the current crop you have girls with so much potential on vault doing very poor difficulty vaults. Think Isis Lowery who would be doing a DTY if she was from the US no doubt, or Georgia Wheeler whose power is being completely wasted on that front pike. Emily should have been training the amanar by the end of 2010. There are even Canadians training them now.

In some ways if we hit and placed out of the top 8 in prelims it might be a bit of a wakeup that relying on the mistakes of others is no way to compete. You can't put up yurchenko fulls and 5.3 bar routines at the olympics and expect to make finals.

Anonymous said...

The Slater comments below show what is really quite flawed thiking under this code in terms of strategy. This idea that 'anything can happen' implies that we'll settle for mediocre and just hope that others stuff up. I wish there was more pride in our own gymnastics and a more active effort to maximise our chances by upgrading and recognising strengths and weaknesses, something the team selection failed to do this year. I have no doubt we'll be going into comps for years saying 'anything can happen' but in reality, nothing will.

Fact is that the bronze was in a different era and under a completely different code of points. The difference now is that it is simply impossible for us to really punch above our weight because our difficulty is too low.

When are they going to recognise that the d-score is the only part of the score not influenced by the flag on your shoulder. it is a foolproof way to up scores. They need to quit believing that good execution will earn them high scores, because we simply don't have to international weight to be given them.

Anonymous said...

July 15, 2012 6:25 PM

"They need to quit believing that good execution will earn them high scores, because we simply don't have to international weight to be given them."

You should get yourself to a few world championships or Olympic Games to compare the quality of our girls and other teams. You will see the value of us stressing quality and consistency!

D scores depend on this quality and consistency - dance skills reaching the correct amplitude and body position, combinations achieved without wobbles or foot movements, salto twists made all the way around. You would be shocked to see the FIG stats for the percentage of skills attempted but not achieved due to "insufficent......" etc.

The girls and coaches all work extremely hard to achieve extremely high levels of consistency and quality to realise the desired D scores. It is not simply a matter of trying skills.

It is very easy to criticise without actually knowing how much work (video analysis, discussion, further training, consultation with judges) is done by everyone to achieve the results at WC or Olympic Games.

Consistent performance of clean routines with as high as possible consistent D scores is of paramount importance to achieving good results.

Anonymous said...

'There seems to be an absence of good technique on the block phase.'

Seems like a good place to start. So, how can this be improved in our young gymnasts?

Anonymous said...

Happy Birthday Girls!

On a different note I'm wondering if anyone can please help me. I'd love to watch the US Olympic Gym Trials (in it's entirety not just separate routines). Usually these comps are on YouTube but this one hasn't been uploaded and NBC (via their website) doesn't allow you to watch it if you're outside the US. If anyone has any suggestions I'd be so grateful. Thanks!!  

Anonymous said...

Anon 915 - try looking on something like utorrent - sometimes the entire coverage ends up on there

Anonymous said...

peggy said that any gymnast attempting an amanar becomes the watergirl for all future comps. she wants to prove to the world that competing yurchenko fulls with perfect technique gets medals. I heard she wanted emily little and mitchell to only compete fulls at the games so they can keep australias low vaulting consistency.

Anonymous said...

Anon 1:09, I'm trying to figure out if you're serious or not...

Anonymous said...

I hope she's joking, or else Peggy seriously needs her head read!

Anonymous said...

So gullible...

Anonymous said...

To Anon 9:15 ,the US Trials and many gym meets are found at the gymmultimedia.myfastforum.org website. It's a forum where people share gym meets. To view the forum and all the meets you must sign up/register.

Anonymous said...

To Anon @ 3.38, thank you for that link. That's all my free time for this week allocated.... :)

Anonymous said...

To Anonymous: July 16 1:09pm.
What? Is Peggy supposed to pull yurchenko doubles and Amanars out of her arse? If the program coaches are not working those skills with the gymnasts, as have been asked of them in the junior program by both Jo Richards and Peggy, then what can she do? I have been to three junior camps and see the plans that are in place for the juniors development, but those gymnasts did not deliver as they went to senior. There is no consequence for the club coaches or high performance coaches if they do not produce high start scores, yet Peggy has to wear the rath of cowardly abusers. Why doesn't someone ask John Hart why he has not produced any new gymnasts for 2012, or why Misha Barabach/Tracey Penaluna have 3 gymnasts in the top 8, but with no internationally competitive d scores. OR ask Nicolai Lapchine/Martine George why Lauren will only compete a yurchenko full and why Emily Little does not have an Amanar, why she only has a 5.3 bars d score. Ask Vladimir Joura why Larrissa has the same bar routine as 2009 worlds. The skills have been planned,but the gymnasts did not deliver. These coaches seem to think once they make a national team they have done their job, then turn them over to Peggy so she can take the heat. Any suggestions?

Anonymous said...

I am sure there are circumstances for each situation, but it is kind of sad that our D scores are kind of low. I think that Peggy is not happy about this and does not advocate this, but a team has to go and this is what Australia has at the moment. Last I heard, any one out there can come and try to get on the team. Just show up with higher scores.

Anonymous said...

Think of the situation we'd be in (australia) if the 2008 girls hadn't conitnued training (and larissa)....we wouldn't really even have a team!! From 1996 to 2000 and I think lisa skinner was the only remianing gymnast for the 2000 team - significant given that the olympics were in oz. Slightly different to what u guys were saying in the last thread.....but I think were kind of lucky to have a team or perhaps also good management to keep the girls training longer. I know 1996 was awhile ago and it was a different era.

Anonymous said...

very true. i feel bad for peggy. i think australian coaches dont know how to teach these skills. They only know how to teach like a yurchenko up to a full and thats it. same with bars. only up to a 5.3 standard and once its reached thats it. i reckon come 2014-2016, we will be on par with India and Sri lanka and be fighting for the wildcard spot come 2016.

Anonymous said...

For anon at 11.47pm - Lisa Skinner was the only team member from 1996 who also made the 2000 team. However, Zeena McLaughlin also trialled in 1996 but was not selected. Great gymnast but hit her peak between Olympics. Lisa Moro had a career ending back injury in 1997. Jenny Smith retired post Atlanta then came back in 1999 looking better than ever but was injured at the 2000 trials. Apparently Ruth Moniz attempted a comeback in 1999 but could not reach her previous standard. Kirsty-Leigh Smith and Nicole Kantek retired post Atlanta.

It's very hard to keep going for another 4 years. Even Ash Brennan this time round had time off post Beijing.

But you're right - we have a dearth of good gymnasts born 1996, 1997 so I hope girls like Mary Anne Monckton and Georgia Rose Brown continue because their experience will be invaluable. Do we even have any good 1997 born gymnasts? Otherwise we have to wait until Alex Eade becomes age eligible the year after.

Anonymous said...

Has Mitchell really ditched her DTY? Is that to protect her shoulder? And will she stick to the double tuck she has recently been dismounting from beam, or throw the double pike? So many q's!

Anonymous said...

Georgia Godwin and Maddy Leydin are 97's

Anonymous said...

Don't think Lauren will do DTY I think it is to risky at this stage. They want her to do her best in Beam and Floor I would think. Don't think Emiky will ever do a an Amanar, if she was, she would be training it now.

Anonymous said...

To 12:23, well so much for your wealth of knowledge, have you had your eyes closed at past national competitions, alluding that there are no gymnasts worthy born 96,97. You just prove your own ignorance. Get your head out of your uninformed, naive arse and look around!!!!

Anonymous said...

Love Leydin and Godwin. Such exciting prospects!

Anonymous said...

I'm sorry, but if Mitchell is only going to be doing a yurchenko full, the team selection is completely compromised. Chloe Sims should have been given a spot with a 6.3 UB set and a tsuk 1.5. There is absolutely no excuses for putting up 2 yurchenko fulls AT THE OLYMPICS.

If we do that I hope we don't make team finals because we don't deserve to. Stick it in the selectors who thought it was more important to have a 4th beam routine than a third strong vault and a second strong bars i.e routines that will ACTUA;LLY COUNT.

Anonymous said...

If Chloe Sims could actually stand up a Tsukahara 1 1/2 during training or hit a bar routine in training that had a d score of 6.3, then she would be on the team. Never did she stand up a vault the entire camp in training and for bars, she maybe, if lucky, hit the 6.3 routine 2-3 times out of the 30-35 routines asked that week. Just for your information, before you start slagging the selectors. In the final trial, both days, Chloe fell on her vault.

Anonymous said...

Use some common sense you noob.

1) Chloe knows how to hit when it counts on bars. She hit UB both days of the trials and every day at nationals.

2) You would expect after a further 5 weeks of training Chloe would have the vault consistent. And if not, she has ANOTHER vault, pike front half, worth THE SAME as a yurchenko full that she can do in her sleep.

So there really is no excuse for not taking her if Lauren is too crippled to even perform a world class vault now.

Anonymous said...

Thanks to those two lovely people who suggested ways of watching the US Trials. Much appreciated and can't wait to watch!!!!!

Anonymous said...

What happens in Australia to our gymnasts who are great gymnasts at junior or lower with great difficulties for their age comparable to over seas but then they seem to plateau is it the coaches not extending them as there is no reason why we couldn't match the rest of the world apart from this ! Maybe we are peaking way too early 12/13 ??

Anonymous said...

Anyone else notice (now, this is very minor and u'll probably think I'm mad for bringing it up...but anyway...)...how some of the girls are wearing their hair in a pony tail and tucking it 'under' if you know what I mean...nastia did it for the trials and I think mckayla did it during 20111 worlds....kind of looks a bit messy to me in gymnastics terms - this wouldn't have been done in the 90s, 2000s I don't reckon...I guess it is a bit of a trend atm. I guess in a lot of ways it is good the girls are a bit more ...individual if u like instead of the usual 'typical gymnast' type.

Anonymous said...

i heard mitchell is going to do a layout yurchenko. not even a full! beam dismount is a double tuck. brennan vaulting a tsuk full.

Anonymous said...

Anon 11:19 in our house we call it McKayla Maroney hair. Or rather, any messy, up-ish sort of hair, we call McKayla Maroney hair.

Anonymous said...

Agree Anon. at 10.07 p.m.

Anonymous said...

The training camps are not for learning new skills, YOU are the uninformed, idiot. What an absolute ignorant statement. At the Olympics, Worlds, SWG there can't be any "last minute Charlies".

Anonymous said...

CWG that is.

Anonymous said...

Thanks to Anon 3.38 (idea of gym multimedia) but is anyone else having trouble uploading the competitions? Do you need to pay to view it?

Anonymous said...

If what people are saying is true, sounds like our vaulting line-up is going to be embarrassing.

Mez said...

To be fair, people were talking about what had been "heard". For goodness sake we haven't even had the preliminary round of Olympic competition yet!

Anonymous said...

pretty hard not to rely on heresay when it's all the info one can get.

Anonymous said...

*hearsay sorry

Anonymous said...

I don't think its a case of our girls peaking too early at 12/13...my experience is what our girls are doing then is below countries such as the US....not sure about now...but when stage 3/4 was in (a long time ago I know!!) the girls were staying on these stages and not moving to junior skills young enough in my opinion.

Anonymous said...

I think this is still the case. We are improving but so is everyone else. Very few 12/13 year olds are where they need to be. Probably why we have a team full of veterans. Emily is the only team member who wasn't senior in 08 and she is one of the few who had an international program at a young age.

Anonymous said...

Wais seems to be the place to be

Anonymous said...

Or VWHPC. Certainly not NSW though. Can anyone tell me why NSWIS supports men's gymnastics but not women's? I don't get it.

Anonymous said...

I think injury needs to be taken as the biggest factor as why our Gymnasts don't seem to progress as much as others.
We don't have the depth as other countries do. Emily has been extremely fortunate to have had a gym career with little injury issues that put her out if of important competitions so of course she has progressed more than others. Most of our other National squad members, seniors, have been dogged with injury over the past 4 years.
This puts back their ability to progress as they are always chasing their tails to get back to square one again, never mind the fact of then trying to learn new difficulty on top of that.
However, I do feel that Emily could have progressed with her vault as she has been doing a DTY for a few years now. Ash also has seemed to escape a lot of injury and again I feel that she could have updated as well and not stayed within her comfort zone for so long. If you look at how many injuries we have had with MAM, GRB(at some stage ) GW,Angela,, Britt, Nikki, Zoe,Amelia,Georgia S even Chloe. We have sometimes had to scrape together teams.It's hard to learn new skills when your injured.

Anonymous said...

Hey anon at 6.29 - tell me who some of these 1996/97 born gymnasts are then! If you're going to call me on something then at least have the goods to back it up.

Only Isis Lowery, born in 1996, is on the senior national team. What happened to Emma Nedov? Retired or injured?

Of the 1997 girls, the only one that really stands out now is Georgia Godwin, and wow she has a long way to go in terms of execution. Grace Flood and Kiara Munteanu show some promise but their skill base is low (the eternal problem).

Far more promise in the 1998 girls such as Alex Eade and Aimee Warnock if you ask me.

So perhaps you should take your advice and pull your own head out.

Anonymous said...

Emma Nedov is coming back from injury

Anonymous said...

Great comments from anon 11.43. The community are generally unaware of the constant physical niggles which hamper gymnasts progression. Management of these niggles is sometimes more of an art form than science, requiring input from many many professionals who often have different approaches. The discipline to maintain health with diet, rehab etc is an add on to their already highly committed schedules. Add to this the mental frustration for the athletes who worry about long term physical damage to their bodies, not to mention the overall balance in their busy lives, one can appreciate
just maintaining form can be a challenge, yet alone working towards skill upgrades.

Anonymous said...

Anon 1.09 NSW exists too. Desnee Richter, Elisha Lai, Emma Nedov, Jazmine Cassis, Celeste Loo, Tian Prestery and I'm sure there's many more that I've missed.

Anonymous said...

If injury is the main reason why our girls aren't able to increase their difficulty, then there are fundamental flaws with the coaching and the elite programs in this country. Most of these girls certainly have the natural ability and amazing potential but are being let down by the current system.

Anonymous said...

The program in general has no depth. I personally knew a lot of young gymnasts back in primary school with 99% of them quitting before they became seniors. They all stated a lack of motivation for the sport or injuries as reasons for leaving. Australia is in serious trouble if they are vaulting yurchenko fulls with 5.3 bar sets and a team final berth is looking highly unlikely

Anonymous said...

Yes, I agree the elite stream program does not have enough depth - not enough competition to get onto the team. I was just wtaching a girls called sarah finnigan spelling?? - I'd never heard of her...admittedly I'm not right up there with my american gymnasts knowledge...but anyway, she was great but she is reserve for america....she even does the same spin on beam as lauren but I think it was with 3 spins....but she didn't even make the team. amazing depth the us has!!

Anonymous said...

I think the drop out rate is about 50% and then 75%. With most programs trying to improve on this.
So;
16 x 2016 cycle girls in 2008 (after the Olympics) = 8 x 2016 in 2012 = 2 x 2016 girls in 2016.

I think these ratio's might stand up pretty well across different programs and cycles (or some variation on this) and that any program that does any forward planning would know this. So basically if the above drop out rate is typical for your program and you want 1 girl to be still training in 2020 you would need to have at least 8 with the potential to do so now. Girls in the middle of the cycle have a better chance of being ready in time so usually there will be more turning 17 and 18 in the Olympic year than those turning 16 or 19.
It is no accident that certain programs consistantly get athletes selected for Olympic teams.
I think the single biggest area where improvement could be made is in the talent ID area. There are some girls (a lot of girls actually) who don't have the bodies to make it through 12 years of training in one piece. Some of these attributes can be spotted easily by coaches but many require assessment by physio or even MRI. A few hours spent early could save a lot of pain later and possibly improve our retention rate and decrease injuries. Quite often weaknesses which all but ensure injuries continue are only picked up around 12/13 when symptoms kick in, by which time the families and gymnasts are completely invested and often struggle through surgeries and rehab only to have to give up anyway. So anyway that's where I see the way forward for healthier gymnasts with greater difficulty and lower drop out rates. Fewer gymnasts to begin with - much more carefully selected = happier healthier gyms.

Anonymous said...

I often say that to get to the Olympics in gymnastics, part of it is just being there the longest. My child's first Olympics that she'll be eligible for is 2020. She's already won some things in elite, so she's doing ok for now, and obviously has some skills and talent.

For her to actually be available for Olympic selection, one of the main things is for her to still be around by 2020 - to outlast all the others. It is in some ways a Stephen Bradbury situation - be the last "man" standing.

By that, I don't mean that Stephen Bradbury only won his medal by fluke. He had to have the skills to be there at that Olympics. But for him to win the medal (or for my daughter to get selected) he had to be the last one standing (skill in itself). If you're not in it, you can't win it.

Oh, and I was just thinking yesterday, that if she ever does get that far, I won't be reading this blog by then. There is NO WAY I will want to read the negative, illinformed comments that people will probably write about her. Commenters (I don't included Mez in this) here write things about about gymnasts they don't know and whose situations they actually know nothing about. The rumours, lies and sheer rubbish that get said on here by commenters could really tear a person down.

Anonymous said...

If your daughter is still training in 2020 (and probably even if she isn't) I bet you do still read here. Maybe people will say nice things too. And maybe you will teach your daughter that what other people say about her is not in her control and therefore not worth worrying about or taking onboard - let alone allowing it to "tear her down!"
There is a lot of support for our gymnasts here as well as criticism.

Anonymous said...

Yes, our talent pool is low but to compare that to the US is mad. We have probably a quarter of the number of girls competing gymnastics in Australia compared to the US and even less in the international stream, we also don't have the depth of the number of clubs able to deliver international standard programs compared to the US. Also there are still many clubs holding back talented gymnasts from going to High Performance Centres as they don't want to lose that gymnast and parents don't often know that you can ring High Performance Centres and take your child for a trial.

Anonymous said...

Not to mention the travel to the hpc..

Anonymous said...

What bodies tend to hold up better than others? The skinny elegant girls or the stocky powerful ones?

Anonymous said...

Seems like an obvious reason to reduce age eligibility again. At least then the 14 yr olds would have a shot at world comps when they're fit and at their peaks, before their bodies conk out.

Anonymous said...

anyone know about the mlc girls?

Anonymous said...

July 22, 2012 6:21 PM

With the closure of the MLC IDP program, 12 girls have transferred to the Waverley Gymnastics IDP program.