Saturday, July 2, 2011

2011 Japan Cup

Konnichiwa!


You can find some pre-competition media from Tokyo at Facebook or view the official event website here.

The Victorian Women's High Performance Centre have put up some great photos onto Facebook of the Aussie girls in and out of the training gym. Check it out!

I'll update anything as it comes to hand (if I'm near my phone or pc). WWGym and GGMB have updates and media coming thick and fast so it doesn't hurt to keep your eyes on those two as well.

If you'd like to view (or try and view!) a stream of the event, Ono No Komachi from WWGym suggests:






1) Download Keyhole TV http://www.v2p.jp/video/english/

2) Look for the characters for Fuji TV フジテレビ

**********************

Day 1: Australia finished 4th with 152.950 in the team competition, and scores went thusly:

Vault: Maryanne 12.100, Larrissa 13.200, Lauren 13.700
Bars: Georgia-Rose 11.150, Larrissa 13.700, Lauren 13.950
Beam: Maryanne 11.400, Ash 11.650, Lauren 13.750
Floor: Ash 11.850, Maryanne 12.650, Lauren 13.850


Day 2: Lauren Mitchell and Maryanne Monckton finished 4th and 5th respectively in the women's all around final. Both put in commendable performances, improving on their scores from the team event. Lauren had the top beam score of the day, outscoring 10 other competitors with a 14.150!

Here is Lauren's new floor routine! (Many thanks to Tenshiguy78 for taking the time to capture and upload from the stream)

80 comments:

Anonymous said...

Reults are up

http://www.jpn-gym.or.jp/artistic/2011/result/pdf/11jc_wt.pdf

Anonymous said...

Team Results;
http://www.jpn-gym.or.jp/english/events/2011/japancup/pdf/11jc_wt_e.pdf

The facebook page says large errors from Canada, Australia and South Korea. Australia finished 4th, 7 points behind Canada! Scary.

Anonymous said...

1.CHN
2.JPN
3.CAN
4.AUS
5.KOR

Vault:MA 12.100 Lauren 13.700 LM 13.200
Bars: Lauren 13.950 GB 11.150 LM 13.70
Beam:MA 11.400 Lauren 13.750 AB11.650
FX: MA 12.650 Lauren 13.850 AB
11.850

Dont know if Peggy will be happy with those scores.
Laurens new floor must have gone well. She did very well.

Anonymous said...

Sorry, you must have posted while I was writing (and trying to use Google translate!)

Anonymous said...

Well I hope she won't be happy with the scores in the 11's

Anonymous said...

Lauren and Larissa did OK, VWHPC girls not so well. Hope there will be some vids.

nade00 said...

Disappointing for the girls but I don't find it especially concerning for the long term. Remember how low the scores were at nationals last year, and then how well the girls did at worlds?

Everyone was questioning whether the team would be able to put up a good performance and then they killed it when Rotterdam came around. At least give them the benefit of the doubt.

I do think it again highlights our vault problem though. Even Canada had 2 DTYs and a Y1.5. You can't just do two yurchenko fulls and a tucked omelianchik and expect to put up a competitive team score these days.

Anonymous said...

If Lauren had her coach there she probably would have done better, but he got left behind. Lauren's could have pulled 1 more point losing by 6 is better than 7 and that was the margin to 3rd. I disagree with you this time nade we should be concerned for GA's future. US, Russia, Romania Germany etc werent there if they were there it would really expose us as being outside of the top 10 in the world. All I can say there are better gymnast around the country who can post better scores than 11's consistently and 7 points from 3rd is not just a try, conversion and field goal away in the gymnastics world. That's classed as a good old fashioned whipping. Looks like Oz Gymnastics has crashed like Greece's economy our talent pool is as dry as Greece's dollar. All I can say is "Please open your your eyes and let the good athlete's go" I feel sorry for the team, it wasn't their fault they had to be there. The result reflects upon the people who selected them to be there. Looks like Lauren's the only one who can save face at the international stage. If this is what we have, worlds is just around the corner, we'll all see that we are well and truely out if the top 10. This isn't meant to be negative this is a fact I don't see us making it to the next Olympics with a performance like this. Poor Lauren imagine not getting a chance to go at your peak because there is no talent to help her get there. This is a legitimate argument, the selection criteria clearly needs to be revised and the Elite gymnastics program needs to be revised just look at how many juniors we have this year. A big drop in numbers between IDP 8 to 10. There is something wrong with the current structure if the numbers aren't following through to the next level. It's simple math no numbers no talent. You don't win or can't compete in the real world by being the favourite person, you actually have to be good. Please don't block this post this needs to be seen and heard for the future of this sport in this country, this is the essence of a blog voicing opinions and gathering ideas from different perspectives. We need a change and fast.

Anonymous said...

Agree with the previous post. Girls aren't continuing because they can't see a future in the sport. Time is only spent on a few due to lack of coaches. And coaches pick who they want to move forward and now the cracks are showing. They need to open their eyes and focus on all and increase the pool of gymnasts. It's great keeping the likes of Brennan, Miller, Bonora, Litttle, but they need to be super strong as many of the younger ones are as talented and have the skills but don't get the opportunities as we are told they aren't experienced enough and not consistent , I can't seen these senior seniors being that consistent at the moment. So I think they need to have a good look at the whole WAG program.

Anonymous said...

Anon 8.57am. Lauren did have her coach there, Martine George was there, she is just as good as her other coach.Don't forget Lauren is coming back from injury and this was the first time for her new floor. I do agree with your other comments.

Anonymous said...

Of course the scores are disappointing. But more disappointing to me is the way all these negative posters start ripping into the girls, the team, the coaches, the selectors and the selections the very second we have a poor performance.

It's like the attitude is that they are happy to support the team if they are winning, but wish they would crawl under a rock and stop offending their eyes if they are losing.

It's one of the reasons I stopped reading this blog -- the comments are just so depressing and disheartening to me, far more so than the results.

After all, we have seen the girls perform better than that already this year, so I am quite confident they can not only do it again, but be on fire in time for Worlds.

Anonymous said...

Obviously this result was disappointing. Way too many errors resulting in scores in the 11s which is disasterous. In the long run though I don't think that this competition is an indication of how Australia will fare at worlds. Last year and the year before we saw some pretty ordinary results at natinals and the lead up to worlds and in the end everything turned out. The girls just came off a camp so they wouldn't have been rested. I'm expecting better D scores at nationals and hopefuly more hit routines.

The most important thing about this comp was to check out the venue for worlds to get some expereince not to win. This trip may have also eased any lingering fears over Japan's nuclear safety.

Anonymous said...

I wouldn't be foo disappointed in Lauren she has been injured and look what she did last year after a string of injuries. I wouldn't right of Larrissa entirely she seems to improve at the major comps and did reasonably well on bars and floor at last years worlds so I wouldn't say she hasn't been useful since 2009, worried about the other girls though but if Maryanne has been injured then she should improve.

Anonymous said...

are there any videos of the TF yet?

Anonymous said...

It was Larrissa who didn't have her coach since her recent move to QAS. So that's where some slack should be given.

Anonymous said...

Looks like LLauren was 4th AA and MA 5th.

Anonymous said...

Lauren 4th 53.750 V 13.800 UB 12.550 BB 14.150 FX 13.250

Mary Anne 5th 52.950 V13.650 UB 12.950 BB13.350 FX 13.00

Good Beam from Lauren Better comp from MA.

Anonymous said...

anon 8.57am "Please open your your eyes and let the good athlete's go" who are the athletes you are referring to? Who is not injured who could have taken the place of the girls who went? Except for Chloe who isn't back on the national squad yet I can't recall anyone performing better this year than the ones who were selected.

Anonymous said...

Some people are very quick to explain away a less successful comp by Lauren but when it comes to other athletes, one unsuccessful comp means that they "aren't prepared" and "shouldn't be taken on international assignments".
I really think all of the girls need as much faith put in them as we put in Lauren.

Anonymous said...

Simpson received 2 bronze medals on bars and beam behind Russian and Romanian gymnasts.Scores in High to mid 13s.

Anonymous said...

Georgia Rose Brown? Simpson didn't go to Japan...

Anonymous said...

Which proves she isn't overlooked for assignments. Perhaps she wasn't available for this one.

Anonymous said...

They aren't talking about this comp. Simpson performed well at travana in Slovakia last month. I think they are implying that she should have been selected for this comp. My point is not all athletes are made available for every competition, it depends on what their individual programs require. Simpson may be needed at home to prepare for nationals or he could be injured. Just because an athlete isn't selected doesn't mean they have been overlooked.

Anonymous said...

Anon at 5.21 what are you talking about. There were no Russians or Romanians in the WG comp

Anonymous said...

Simpson: Reply to Anon 5.08.with regards to no one else being better
than Chloe this year. Simpson competed in Slovakia in June, I think.

Anonymous said...

If brown did win two bronzes then that is a good result. Anon 5:20 look at Lauren has achieved can you really expect people to have as much faith in the other girls as in Lauren. Ideally people would but the other girls haven't earnt it like Lauren yet.
On a different topic does anyone know why Chloe didn't compete bars at Qld States and when did Larrissa move to QAS?

Anonymous said...

My comment wasn't that no one had performed better than Chloe this year but that I couldn't think of anyone except for Chloe who had performed better than the girls selected. I forgot about Georgia Simpson and also Britt Greeley who broke 14 on vault but as I said these girls may not have been available. I just didn't understand the comment "let the good athletes go" which sounded like we sent a b team and left superior athletes at home. I do think it is a shame that our best didn't perform that well but I don't think we had some other group we could have sent who are better.

Anonymous said...

Sorry anon 5.33.I think this has got a bit confusing. The comment about Simpson and her bronze medals in Slovakia was a reply to anon 5.08.A bit of track from Japan, sorry.Brown didnt medal.

Anonymous said...

Will Chloe be able to go to World CHamps? How does the process work for her to get onto the National Squad again?

Anonymous said...

Anon 5:39, Gotcha now, thanks for explaining.Blogging is a bit like emailing, sometimes things can be read the wrong way.I think often people read things in a very negative way but in fact it is not meant to be.You need to be open minded.

Anonymous said...

Does anyone have a link to see Lauren's new floor routine online anywhere? I'm dying to check out her now choreography :-)

Anonymous said...

Anon July 3, 2011 5:43 PM

There should be a selection policy for the selection to the National Squad somewhere on GA (try under technical information - it's there for other gymsports). It's normally a score or placing at a specific comp. There is also normally a selection committee.

Anonymous said...

Congratulations girls! Well done!

Anonymous said...

Look how lively the discussion gets when we don't have to sign in to comment!

Anonymous said...

So I just saw Lauren's floor on the live stream. It's a flamenco sounding renditon of Besame Mucho. Some vocals at the start and again later on. It sounded like the crowd was clapping along at one point but I think it was part of the music and not the crowd, it was difficult to tell as the stream quality was awful.

The dance is reminiscent of Pang Panpan's 2006 floor routine in that there's a lot of long arm waves and funky steps, some knee lifts. Not surprising as Pop did the choreography for that too.

The stream quality was really awful. The bottom half of the screen was cut out so I'm not sure but it looks as though Lauren went OOB twice on her first two passes. She didn't do the whip into the double arabian. Her double arbian had a large hop which caused her to do a poor stag leap OOB. The piked full in looked as though it had a bit more leg seperation than usual and she bounced OOB. Double wolf turn which she end up on the floor like in 09. Third pass was watered down to a 2.5+front tuck. Ended with a nice double pike with a good landing. Leaps were a switch half, switch ring and I think a split full, my stream crackled at that point.

The routine is a faster paced higher energy routine than her old one. It's hard to have an opinion on it as the stream was really very poor but from what I could make out it wasn't bad.

Anonymous said...

Lauren's floor
http://www.youtube.com/user/gymbrazil123#p/u/2/KjPVsmFsvdE
Her beam has also been uploaded to the same account and I must say it looks like she was underscored. Definitely looked better than what I was expecting for a low 14 score. She's added a full turn after she gets up out of her wolf turn.

Anonymous said...

I think all of the girls did not perform at their best in Japan. All have scored higher in states or overseas comps this year. For the "rookie" seniors brown & mockton an international arena is often enough to throw you off psychologically but with time and more exposure they quickly overcome this(as seen with Maryanne performance on the 2nd day) the older or more experienced seniors perhaps underperformed but they still have the same skills and maybe this will give them a wake up call and push them back up to the level they need to be at to hold their position.
GW moving to HPC I do think that there are a lot of girls and not enough coaches. This not only affects the seniors but juniors & younger groups. I agree in an Olympic cycle gymnasts need solid attention. If I was a parent of a senior gymnast there or a gymnast I would be concerned about value for money. BUT having said that I do think the girls train better in an environment that they are happy in. Look at the advances in brown & mockton and I am sure miller will train exceedingly well QAS with an older peer group.
Let's see how they all go at nationals. Chloe will be exciting to watch. It does appear that she has matured in her attitude. Hype about athletes happen that's not always the athletes fault. GW should not be penalized or critized for any media attention so what in this sport it's all about passion and love for gymnastics there us no sponsorship no money and if one gymnast happens to get some exposure who cares that's only a bonus for all gymnastics.

Anonymous said...

Better quality version of Lauren's floor
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqtETfMyris
Looks like she's trying to upgrade her split full to a split 1.5. If she can get all her dance credited and she does the whip+arabian+stag she's looking at a 6.3 D score. I think she'll be the only one with 2D and 1 E in dance skills.

The same account has her BB too.

Anonymous said...

Wow. I completely hate the music. I feel awful saying that as I really love Lauren, but that music will never, ever grow on me. I don't like vocals in FX music anyway, but that has to be the worst example of them I have ever heard. They don't even sound like they are part of the same song.

The choreography isn't really anything special, exciting or different, either. Lauren performs it well, but this is a complete disappointment.

Can we please have some new music and some Stacey or Lisa Bradley choreography?

Beautiful height on her tumbles, though!

Alanna said...

@asha, I think that you're right about the vault standards of Australian gymnastics. However, I think that it isn't fair for anyone to judge these girls on how their bodies have changed. It's a natural part of growing up and it isn't fair to say that they dont look like gymnasts. They're working very hard and its very childish to judge their body types

Anonymous said...

Sorry to be negative. But I really dislike most of adi pops routines. I find Stacey umeh's choreography far more appealing and miss laurens old routine after watching that. Peggy!!! Stick with Stacey umeh! She is Australian (yes a citizen) afterall!!

Anonymous said...

Why didn't Peggy use our own Choreographers, Stacey and Lisa are both very good, there is no need to source others.

Anonymous said...

I'm sorry, but I am OVER all the hype about Chloe.There was so much self promotion before Queensland states, I don't think she looks that exceptional and there has been no more said after a bad performancs at states.I feel she has had her time and blew it.It seems with her remarks that this is all about Chloe,I don't get a feeling of TEAM spirit from her.It's all about another tick of the bucket list!It's not fair on other girls who have been working thru injuries and have shown dedication and commitment to the Australian Team over the years to get to this point.

Becka said...

To each their own but I am so insanely excited to watch Chloe's comeback. I don't know the story behind why she didn't compete bars at States but from what I've seen there is a new maturity to her gym. Circa 2006 I stopped seeing that love for her gym in her, but she seems to be loving training & competing again and she's doing it for herself. Many of her skills are looking cleaner than they did from her previous elite career.

I fail to see the 'self-promotion' mentioned by others. I just see excitement and an understable level of pride & achievement over regaining her skills and getting back out there.

Hope she finds consistancy going forward because IMHO she could be a very welcome, experienced base to our team over the next 18 months. Love her new floor choreography.

With regards to Lauren's floor I'm on the fence. Some elements of the dance are quite lovely and although she's a bit rough around the edges, I found the performance aspect of Lauren's floor to be surprisingly entertaining. She seems to like her floor and is making an honest effort to 'show' her routine.

I honestly find Adi Pop a little hit-n-miss and have enjoyed many of Lisa's & Stacey's floor routines. Perhaps Peggy would also considering tapping Dasha's considerable talent if her work with Katie Wurth is anything to go by?

Anonymous said...

"It's not fair on other girls who have been working thru injuries and have shown dedication and commitment to the Australian Team over the years to get to this point"

i agree with you to some extent, however, since when has choosing a team in gymnastics EVER been based upon "fairness" alone?

you need to send who is BEST.

Anonymous said...

It is interesting to note that when the anonymous function was removed this blog was a wasteland. There were often cases of posts generating no responses whatsoever.

Anonymous said...

if the anon function is removed then in the space of not even 6 months,there will be lucky to be more than 10 regular commenters

Becka said...

Not everyone uses the Anon function to hide behind :) I have issues using my Google account on any of these types of sites, always have. Even when I've posted under 'Anonymous' I've always written my name in my post.

Anonymous said...

Dont say chloe hasnt worked hard. She has worked harder then most considering she has to get back into competitive elite shape after so long off. Her scores reflect that she up there if not in a better position then lauren mitchell this year even with falls. She has difficulty to die for and her results at states show that she was recovering from injuries and using it as a mock comp as none of the other girls were there. The hype is there because it is well deserved!

Anonymous said...

i like laurens new floor, its different and i love that and i actually really like the music too. its bout time we stepped away from the traditional gymnastic floor routine... the ones that make you want to fall a sleep. this is fun to watch and i think she has more expression not to mention i feel this style of dance fits her better. but i do love umeh's style aswell but i think peggy and pop got this one right.

Mez said...

PS: It's great to see everyone so jazzed about Chloe Sims' comeback. She is looking very impressive after such a hiatus. But please DON'T make personal comments.

If she is looking to return to the national squad she will surely already be exploring the best channels of doing that - be it chasing up the forms or talking to the right people. Having been through the elite system once before she must know what is expected; a national team spot doesn't just come from a good placing domestically.

I wish Chloe the absolute best and I'll be thrilled to bits if she places well at Nationals alongside the girls who've already shone in the last year. There's fight in the old dog yet and I am hope she gets what her heart wants. Her efforts thus far can't have gone unnoticed and if she is deemed a suitable fit to represent us
a) internationally
b) working in conjunction with a selected team
then she will be there. Hard work doesn't go unrewarded and there are always second chances. We just have to wait and see.

Anonymous said...

Not a fan of Lauren's new routine. I dont like lyrics anyway but the dance seems similar to last time but i will watch it a few more times.
Also you look at previous olympic champions and they have music that makes you look. Especially Americans, they generally have great music and great dance (generally).

Mez said...

I don't love the routine, I'll admit. But... Maybe it'll grow on me??? It has small moments of stylishness but that music doesn't work.

Anonymous said...

@ Anon July 3, 2011 5:08 PM. "Please open your your eyes and let the good athlete's go" to be honest I don't know who to send. This was a general statement, I was assuming that this country would be peaking especially 1 year out of the Olympic Cycle. You can say my expectation might be too high but losing to a team (Canada) by 7 points that you beat last year at the Commonwealth Games, a sane individual would expect an improvement from last year and plenty of people would agree with me. It's disapointing seeing a rapid descend.

Also my concern is GA supposed to convince parents to stick to this sport when you see no return on investment, because there are no free elite program these days average elite program in this country would probably be around the $7000 dollar mark in gym fees alone. Don't get me started on physio and medical costs we all know how much a gymnast gets injured. Look at the seniors that have been mentioned carrying injurys in this post alone. Plus dont forget about the other tangibles that gymnast need like leo's, wrist gaurds, tape, interstate trips etc; I'd say the average cost to run an elite gymnast would be close to the $15000 mark per annum (elite parents would agree with me here). Dont get me wrong I love this sport however if I were a parent i'd rather gamble $15000 per annum on an education rather than an australian gymnastics career. Not many parents have a disposable income of $15000 to throw around every year and usually the parents who do have that kind of money usually have their minds set towards an education at a top school. It takes an average of 8-10 years to create an elite gymnast so to date an average parent of a elite gymnast would invest (risk, invest wouldn't be a valid word with this last performance) $120000 - $150000 (plus inflation, sounds like a deposit for an average house these days to escape mortgage insurance)and this is just to get the to a world level and when your asking parents to risk that much money and our top athletes perform like this people who follow and people who are in the gymnastics community have the right to be concerned. Plus I am a new tax payer and GA takes my money to run so I feel I have the right to critique them. If this trend follows, when I have kids I'd seriously consider then steering away from the elite level.

What a big concern if you look at NSW Elite Program (take note that Gymnastics NSW has the highest numbers of Club not Elite registered gymnasts according to GA's last published Annual Report) this year they are producing 2 Juniors and No Senior Elite WAG Gymnasts its clear to see that there is something wrong. To strengthen this just watch this years nationals you would see that IDP10-Seniors the competitor numbers have dropped as a whole. You can blame Peggy as much as you want but the real problem is GA is not taking care of their business. Peggy is a National Coach not a buisiness woman so I think it's time to rollover Mr Williamson and Ms Clarke. How are coaches supposed to work with no Gymnasts. I wouldnt even worry about lack of coaches the problem is lack of gymnast.

Lastly as to Gymnast moving to VHCP it comes down to 2 things (in my view). 1 something fishy is going on gymnasts and parents are getting a sweet deal or 2 even though no world beaters are coming out of there at this point in time gymnasts and parents feel obliged to go there because that's where most of the picks are coming from. Sorry to offend some people but these are my thoughts, so crucify as much as you like. I just feel sorry for all the coaches that have lost gymnast to them imagine spending all that time with 1 kid and they leave you just like that.

Anonymous said...

I think this free flowing mix of thoughts and inputs - the articulate, inarticulate, knowledgeable and unknowledgeable is great. It's what free media is all about. What I don't like is the sanctimonious tut tutting.

So the athletes may not like negativity - it's par for the course. The smart ones are getting on with the job and not trawling sites like this for a mention of their name.

Anonymous said...

I wuite like Lauren's new floor - imagine that floor up against the robotic mess of US choreography (tumbling aside) - bye bye awkward Lauren (as she was called on another blog) hello artistic Lauren:)
MH

Anonymous said...

I'm sorry anon at 8.10pm but you are wrong on many accounts and you know don't know enough about elite gymnastics and the HPC to pass these comments. I'm not being critical of you but you need to be better informed

nade00 said...

Re: Australia beating Canada at least years CWG - I don't think that was an accurate representation of how good Canada is. Their CWG team was a B team, with their best gymnasts going straight to worlds.

They have some great gymnasts this year who have gained maturity and difficulty and they will be tough competition at worlds. As I said earlier, their vaulting has improved significantly. Us losing to them is equally a statement on the strength of their program as it is on the supposed weakness of ours.

In my view success this year will probably be conditional on a bit of luck with girls recovering from injuries. Girls like Chung, Little and Lorenzin will be important assets if they can recover in time.

It will be interesting to see the approach the coaches take to difficulty and upgrades. I think strategy might be important. In a Mitchell article a while back, it is mentioned that Peggy/coaches do not like to add upgrades in the year of the Olympics.

I can see the merits in trying to achieve stability, but one has to wonder whether they may need to throw caution to the wind a little this cycle and go all out, especially if relegated to the second team qualifying event. After all, in Beijing the watering-down safe strategy didn't seem to really pay off as there were still significant mistakes made in all phases of the competition.

There is definitely more competition between teams 5-15 this cycle, and maybe we cannot afford to play it safe all the time. After all, you will always max out in e-score, and as non-ROM/RUS/CHN/USA team, the girls probably wont be getting many favours. Nobody can argue with your d-score or short change you if you show the elements. ROM/RUS/CHN/USA certainly haven't suffered from notable problems from upgrading in the year of the olympics, they are always continually updating their routines and adding significant levels of difficulty.

Anonymous said...

I agree with anon 8.10 all of the comments made about the cost/investment to make/support an elite gymnast in australia. As a parent of 2 elite Gymnasts costs exceed 30,000 a year and with no renumeration ( unlike other sports ie ,golf,swimming,AFL,ARL,tennis just to name a few..The female and male gymnasts do this sport purely for the love of it. We get little or no help with fees at both a junior and senior level compared to other sports ie diving,soccer, etc Sponsor ship is almost impossible on an individual level due to the short lifespan of the Athlete and hence very little gain for monies outlaid by the sponsor. I also agree with the need for development of gymnasts and the focus needing to be on GA not on Peggy.. More sponsorship as a national body means more support for the Athlete after all GA has a longer life span than the individual athlete.
Not sure about the gymnasts moving to VWHPC re sweeteners etc but I do know that it is important to give the girls a social life and other healthy competition although it is my understanding that when you are at a school program you often get the gym fees exempt and or partial school fees to pay. Its hard to beat something like that. Great education, good coaches, lots of attention, good social life outside of gym life... no travelling when you get to school its all in a complete package.. sounds like a great idea for all gymnasts think i might give them a call, wonder if they take borders from interstate?

I actually appreciate most comments on this site, some are a little too harsh and personal but most are informative all are concerned about the future of this sport in Australia, For this I thank all of you as without your interest we may well dissolve into nothing..

Anonymous said...

Gymnasts in the US certainly attract sponsorship, appearing in TV ads, etc. I don't see any reason why our athletes can't get the same recognition.

Mez said...

I'm all for gymnasts being used as role models in the media! I think they're excellent examples of discipline, focus, healthy living and determination. And they're as stunning as any lauded clotheshorse - look at Nastia's photoshoots.

I'd rather see them get a tv spot than a supermodel, "internet celebrity", Kardashian or footy/cricket WAG. I think they'd be a more inspiring in Dolly Mag feature than a budding pop starlet in a midriff top. But try telling that to marketers here.

Sandy said...

there is a HUGE difference between American gymnastics and the Australian gymnastics system.
HUGE

and that is based upon 2 major reasons:
1. Americans can gain access to college scholarships through gymnastics, Australians can't. Americans have to either pay MASSIVE fees to go to college (which many can't afford) or get a scholarship. Australians have HECS, so all can go to Uni.

2. As sad as it seems, Australians are not big into female orientated sports. Aussies love footy, rugby, cricket, golf, swimming, soccer and even a bit of basketball. All sports which are male dominated. Yes, females CAN play these sports, and some women are very good.
But when was the last time channel 7, 9, 10, 1 showed womens football? Swimming is probs the only sport where women receive adequate recognition.

When advertising execs need to chose an athlete who will represent their brand, chances are they want someone who is well known and successful. Aussie gymnasts are none of these (sadly).
Please don't misunderstand: I don't mean our gymnasts are hopeless or losers etc..... We are really starting to improve as a nation.
But Aussies are rarely on the world medal podium. And advertising execs are not going to fork out thousands to have their gymnast place 10th.

Anonymous said...

Sandy, what you have said I am in agreement with, however there is also a significant difference in the philosophy between Peggy and Martha as National Coaches. The US adopts a much more objective selection criteria, basically best performing athletes at a public event are selected for US teams. In contrast, Australias selection committee is incredibly subjective as it is basically whoever the selection committee decides behind closed doors(so be carefull not to cross them, I would suggest some certainly hold grudges)that is selected to represent Australia. On the occassions that a 'trial' is being held they are more often than not held at training camps on at the AIS where they are neither published or made easily accessable to the public - thus helping the selection committee to basically select whoever they want. It is this subjectivity that makes this countries gymnastics so political and poisonous.

Anonymous said...

Anon 343pm -- I'm sorry but the word objective is not something I would ever have thought about the US selection process! Sure, the top 2 at nationals automatically make the Olympic team but it's been said for years that Martha has a great amount of influence over the judging at the nationals and at the end of the day she picks who she wants on the team - if Martha doesn't like you or your gym you will not make a team! That is not objective.
-Patty-

Anonymous said...

anon at 3.43 pm i agree with you

Anonymous said...

"however there is also a significant difference in the philosophy between Peggy and Martha as National Coaches. The US adopts a much more objective selection criteria, basically best performing athletes at a public event are selected for US teams."

No freaking way. That program destroys more young women than builds them into World Champions. Luckily they have enough kids coming through the door to make up for enormous number that burn out.

Valeri Liukin is the kind of coach to aspire to be IMO- if it weren't for him the USA medal haul would have dropped significantly over the past 8 years... no Vise, no Patterson, no Liukin, no Bross, no Ohashi, no Olympic AA champions. He managed to nurse Patterson through a major elbow injury and back problems, Liukin through serious back issues and a major ankle injury, and is currently working Bross through several injuries also, yet his athletes still enjoy the sport and PEAK when it counts. The athletes from his program always wind up being the ones to hold the USA team together when the rest of the gymnasts fall apart mentally and physically due to mismanagement.

Anonymous said...

Peggy Liddick on Chloe's comeback:

http://www.intlgymnast.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2630:liddick-sims-must-impress-in-perth&catid=2:news&Itemid=166

Anonymous said...

Liddick playing a very straight bat. Let's hope for a god performance in Perth

Anonymous said...

I'm gunning for Chloe and am impressed with the videos of her lately. Best of luck Chloe for a great Nationals where hopefully she will raise a few eyebrows and push towards regaining a spot on the National squad.

Anonymous said...

Vise and Patterson were Marchencho's (sp) gymnasts

Sandy said...

Marta Karolyi knows her gymnasts. There is no doubt in my mind about that.


as much as ANYONE can say that she is "biased" or is too tough/unkind, the Karolyi's are THE best thing to happen to womens gymnastics.
Name any other coach or gymnast who has had such a MASSIVE impact on the sport.

to say she is running USA gymnasts to the ground is an ABSOLUTE load of rubbish.

she KNOWS how to choose a team

think of all the successful gymnasts over the years....and now how the USA is a gym powerhouse under her leadership.

wish she'd come here!

Anonymous said...

wow deleting comments mez...i dont think i support this blog anymore. stop trying to please everyone, and covering the truth about how up the shit wall australian gymnastics is...go on delete this comment aswell, i dare you

Anonymous said...

Whats with the aggressive comment!! Mez does a pretty good job, and doesn't need to justify herself to anyone! And who are you to be so abusive? Its her blog, and she can do as she pleases! If you want to have total freedom of speech and slag of individuals and organisations then you take the time and set your OWN blog up! Go on, I dare you!!!

Mez said...

Anon, your mum must be so proud. You're not very DARING if you're saying it behind an Anonymous label.

If you're so sure of your position and I'm so wrong in the way I'm going about what I do, and need my apparent propagandist nature spelled out to me, show yourself in the stands at a gym event and say all this in person. To my face. Where you can be heard by all and sundry. Try to convince the people around you we're all celebrating a fruitless endeavour like the musicians on the Titanic and are down the proverbial until further notice. I think you'll have a tough job of it.

I'll take your comment on board simply because - dislike it though I do - if someone's knocking me then at least they're not knocking a young athlete who did nothing to deserve it.

Anonymous said...

some of the comments on this blog are wuite amusing - reminds me of something an old english teacher said when I was in high school "those who can't do - teach, and those that do or teach - criticise"

--Sarah--

Anonymous said...

I was the Anon who refernced Marta Karolyi- and no I don't think she is running the US program into the ground. But I sure think she should have more team gold medals to show for the immense talent she has to work with. The USA team often seems to fall apart under her guidance- SO many injuries occur at that camp, SO many American gymnasts retire from the sport disillusioned, and for all that talk about competing under pressure, when the shit truly hits the fan- at 2004 olympics, 2006 Worlds, 2008 olympics, 2010 Worlds, they don't do it, and its the GYMNASTS who get crucified, not the people in charge, who pull the same tactics year after year after year. They have exceptional gymnasts in the US, but they are mismanaged and overworked under the helm of Marta Karolyi. It will be interesting to see what happens when she retires and somebody else takes over the role after 2012.

Sandy said...

Hi anon

But don't injuries occur in every country? Injuries are not always something you can prevent. Especially when the girls are training 35 hours a week at a high impact sport. And when you have "SO MANY" gymnasts, and only 6 spots on the team, then of course lots of gymnasts will be disillusioned with the sport. And "peaking when it matters" is not an exact science- alot of it has to do with age and maturity too. It not Anyones fault that a girl peaks outside an Olympic year

And considering Marta trains None of these girls as their coach. She sees them a few times a year at camps. They all have their own coaches. I don't see how we can lie all fault with one woman

Anonymous said...

Given the ratio of injuries to the number of seniors competing I would say Australia's statistics are worse that the USA. Again considering the countries population ratio I would also say there are more Australian gymnasts leaving this sport at an elite level that are disillusioned.
So my overriding point is that similar events/circumstances are occurring in both countries, however, the USA are more open in their selection of gymnasts therefore encouraging greater public support and achieving results. There has been preceding arguments in the past about Australia's limited numbers and thus excusing the lack of results. Diving Australia is an even smaller sport in this country, yet one which has gained at least an Olympic gold and a bronze medal. Australian gymnastics needs to be more accepting of differing methods to achieve the same results. Healthy competition between clubs/institutes creates success with no room for personal bias in a selection committee.

Anonymous said...

Anon 9:5 injuries happen in every country and you cannot blame one person for that but the US do have a terrible record of gymnasts getting injured at camps and just before or during major comps and I think Marta has to be at least partially responsible for this. I am not sure if this is what anon 1:01 was alluding to or not but it does seem to be a bit of a problem for them.

Sandy said...

if injuries are occuring prior to competitions and around selection camp times, wouldnt that have more to do with the gymnasts and club coaches working harder to prepare the gymnasts (higher number of reps, attempting to increase difficulty/connection bonuses etc) hence they are more likely to suffer (overuse) injury? and less to do with marta?



yes, marta expects to see neat polished improving routines & makes them work hard at camps (obviously) but if they cant handle the pressure at a camp, how can they handle it internationally?